| Top 100 Goalies |
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| Written by Dobber | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Sunday, 25 February 2007 16:43 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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The following is a list of the top 100 goaltenders to own in your fantasy pool. These are the goalies that I would love to own in a keeper league that includes the postseason and where points carry over in trades, in order. *Note: if your league does not have one or both of the above bolded stipulations, then I am sure you take issue with the list, but I can't please everyone.
As with the Fantasy Player list – the rating number is weighted according to actual value IN A KEEPER LEAGUE that includes the postseason and points carry over in trades. The top handful of goaltenders are above and beyond the rest of the group, and it is reflected in their rating.
I use the following criteria:
1. How many wins the goaltender will pick up by the end of this season (or next season, if it is the April - September update) 2. The team they play for (this could give them added playoff value). 3. Where they sit on the depth chart. 4. How many years before they become a number one. If they already are a number one goalie, they obviously have an advantage. 5. Proneness to injury. 6. General talent level, based on scouting reports and statistical performance. 7. Age. So young you have to wait awhile? So old his numbers are slipping? Or...hitting his prime? 8. The potential to be a starting goalie. If they are destined to be a backup, then they are penalized quite a bit.
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Comments (91)
Chewd
said:
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Ellis I agree with Ian: "smith ahead of ellis??????????" Even if Smith is ranked ahead of Ellis, I can't justify the wide spread between them. Ellis is superior in most statistical categories and given Smith's injury history (not to mention Smith has zero playoff experience) the gap between them should be a lot closer. |
clayton
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... Dobber-- Is Varlamov kept out of the top ten moreso because of his proneness to injury, or because of competition from Neuvirth? I have always noted that you are very high on Neuvirth however I have never seen him play so I do not know how to compare him to Varlamov, who I think is very very talented. I guess my question is, what is it that is keeping Varlamov out of the top 5? Is he not the goalie of the future for Washington, capable of handling 65-70 starts on a regular basis? In my opinion, he's a much better option than Halak is going forward. thanks! |
Santo aka Ross10019
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... Dobber, very happy to see Lundy rise to No 2, any particular reason in your mind? The Rangers D hasn't gotten all that better. Then there's Hiller, a little surprised that he remains behind guys like Quick (given the Bernier risk), Anderson (Colorado is in my view a poorer team than Anaheim) and Elliott (Leclaire, while injury prone, is still lurking). Obviously I know that Elliott and Hiller are so close as to be interchangeable, but not the case with Quick or Anderson. I imagine that suspect Anaheim D is part of your reasoning, but Hiller's numbers have typically been great hence my question. Thanks as always for your hard work Dobber! |
KJ
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DP Hmm, DP should be a lot lower. I couldn't trade him for the next 10-15 below him in my league. His credibility in fantasy leagues is completely vanished. |
Dobber
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... Larry If you shopped Roloson to me in any of my keeper leagues I would laugh at you. Even if you asked me to take him for free. I don't care about 20 wins. 20 wins won't get on my pro team. Or any pro team in fantasy hockey. And after next year, how will he do? Retire? It's keeper league rankings. Tim Thank you! Rad 23rd isn't high. Barely a second pro goalie in most keepers. And even as a "backup" he'll still get 25 wins...and he's a Niemi injury away from getting 35 wins. He has value, come on. |
Tim
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... Hats off for doing these. You're never going to have 100% aggreement. I can't imagine how hard it would be to put this together. |
Larry
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... Roloson at #84? he maybe old,but I'd bet he gets more starts then Dipietro. Huet will be lucky to be in the NHL next 2 years (more due to his contract than his talent) |
Rad64
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... Hey Dobbs, How can Huet still be ranked so high? He didn't get into a single play-off game and I can't see Chicago playing him over Niemi next season. At this point I can't imagine he has more value than any starter in the league. What gives? Rad |
Dobber
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... woo woo - he has to get pointed out to me by a disgruntled reader  . Stalock has been properly adjusted befitting his season. playoffs - will always be a factor because they are a factor in my keeper league. Since there are 1000s of ways to run a keeper league (trust me, I've seen that many sets of rules it seems) that I can't please every league. So if I'm going to please a league at all, it may as well be my own. Playoff factor is only 0 to 7 rating points, so you can manually adjust downward (by zero if the team is the Leafs, or by 7 if your team is PIT or CHI) |
sentium
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... I agree about Stalock. He's a horse and his coaches have been lauding him all year long, saying how he almost always makes the right save at the right time even though he might not have the very best GAA or Save% numbers. He gets the most important thing: the wins. I picked him up a while ago in my keeper league and I have no idea what Sexsmith is doing on this list. For years it was apparent that his success in the WHL was more because he was on a super good team and not because of his skill. Now that he got to the pro game he really crapped the bed. |
WooWoo
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... I understand that inclusion criteria is not always obvious but how can Alex Stalock not be on this list? He LED the AHL in victories this season as a rookie after dominating in his final year in the NCAA, breaking the All-Time rookie mark and finishing in the top 12/13 (I forget which) best win numbers ever! The fact that his team used him as a workhorse tells you how highly they valued him - he's the best kept secret in our organisation and IMHO, much, much better than Sexsmith who you have in your list. A 4th round draft pick, he was hardly a reach (5 rounds ahead of Evgeni Nabokov, I might add!) and if he's heading for San Jose, you'd think he's going to see a fair few 'W's down the road. Nabokov is coming to the end of his career and I personally consider Stalock much more of an heir-apparent than Thomas Greiss, due respect. This kid has steady No.1 potential but he's never been a glamour pick - nobody knows anywhere near enough about him. I'd be advising everyone in a deep keeper league to check him out. So Dobber, what more does he have to do to get some recognition in your list? How the AHL wins leader can't be ahead of Eddie Lack confuses me - surely he must be behind Luongo, Raycroft and Schneider? |
dean little
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... "Dean - I pride myself in my "stable" rankings. My No.1 criticism of all of my rankings is that I move players up and down too slowly. So your comment is quite ironic. To answer your question - yes, Theodore had more value in my league than Ward. There were teams competing at the top who needed a goalie for the stretch run and they needed a goalie for the playoffs. Ward was of no use to them. So 50% of the teams in my league were out of the mix when it comes to the Ward market. when the Caps are out, Ward will then have more value. " I totally with the above rationale, if it were one year league, but even teams competiting for first, theodore is basically a one year rental, as his future is uncertain. He didnt register a playoff win, so if someone traded ward for theodore, im sure they'd be kicking themselves right now. for example i have huet on my team, he is ranked 15 on your list, which should make me feel good about owning him, but i dont think there is a chance in hell i could get anything for him in the summer. heck he could be buried in the minors next year. |
bball
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... The playoff issue has been around for a while. As Dobber has pointed out, the playoff rankings are minimal. Looking at the top 10, all of the goalies are in the playoffs (except Lundy). Thinking about it, this makes a lot of sense as the best goalies are going to help their teams into the playoffs whereas the goalies that are not quite up to par are not going to make the playoffs. I mean, look at Varlamov. He is not among the top tier of goalies this go around even though he is probably going to be the man for Washington down the stretch and they should go a lot further then Lundqvist will with NYR. He is so low because his performance to date is not quite where it needed to be. These rankings seem pretty solid. I mean, you can argue that Luongo might not be number one and be upset that Miller is not in the top 3 but anyone in the top 5-8 are going to be pretty much interchangeable anyway without giving up too much long term. |
Darren
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... I think dean's makes some excellent points. I really don't see why the tenders should include playoff's in their rankings. Most pools I have been involved in do not include tenders and if so its marginal to a tender's OA keeper value. |
Dobber
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... Dean - I pride myself in my "stable" rankings. My No.1 criticism of all of my rankings is that I move players up and down too slowly. So your comment is quite ironic. To answer your question - yes, Theodore had more value in my league than Ward. There were teams competing at the top who needed a goalie for the stretch run and they needed a goalie for the playoffs. Ward was of no use to them. So 50% of the teams in my league were out of the mix when it comes to the Ward market. when the Caps are out, Ward will then have more value. It's a tough balance - the here and now vs. the long-term. But the here and now does have an affect on keeper rankings. Dave - Huet is indeed down a few pegs. Alex - rankings take into account Wins and Shutouts, both this year and future potential, only, as far as "hard stats" are concerned. So Fleury could have a 5.00, and 0.750 numbers, as long as he gets 40 wins many league formats will see him near the top of the ranks. (I exaggerate to make my point). I do use my opinion in general talent level, but SP and GAA only influence that, it is not used as a hard statistical variable. Ed - Lehner is on this list and has been for months |
dean little
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... only problem i have with the rankings is they seem to flucuate too often, i could see if it were a one season ranking list but a keeper list should have some stability. how does varlamov go from top 10 all season to below huet? Huet may have more value this season(due to counting playoffs) but there is no way his *keeper* value should surpass varalomov... and just because ward is injured, does that mean theodore carries more trade value than him in a *keeper* league? guys like theodore and huet could be on crappy teams next year and due to their age, should have their value decreased, but they out rank some solid young talent that is just as proven. |
Alex
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Fleury Dobber, I still don't understand why Fleury is ranked so high. You say that playoffs don't make a big contribution so how can you rank him #3 when Brodeur, Miller, Lundqvist, and Bryzgalov all have better numbers. We are talking about a guy with a 2.83 career GAA and 0.907 SV%???? IMHO he should be below the guys I just mentioned. |
jamesdmack
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Hedberg? You know what trouble I's talkin' 'bout. I's talking 'bout Mr. Johan Hedberg. He'll be comin' to Atlanta when he gets his leave, and you sittin' there waitin' for him, just like a spider. He belongs on this list! |
Ed
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... It's about time you put in Robin Lehner. Justin has had him the lists of NHL prospect goalies, since he started in October. Great work Dobber! Keep up the good work. |
Dobber
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... bball - you'll have to adjust according to your league. I cover the majority of leagues with my rankings, other than the playoff influence - which is really so small that it hardly makes an impact. If you've seen as many sets of rules for fantasy hockey as I have, you would realize just what a tiny drop in the bucket your league rules really are - seriously Dave - I try not to knee-jerk. On January 20th (the update you were commenting on 19 days later) Halak was hardly established enough as a starter to warrant any higher. Keep in mind that January 20 is barely half a season. A month later and he has moved up quite a bit as we can be more confident that he will be a starter somewhere next year. Most leagues have little use for a platoon goalie - they need to be proven starters day in and day out. |
sentium
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... Way down at 23? In his current situation, that's as good as it gets for him. Let him become an actual starter first before you hype him to extremes. |
bball
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Alternate Article Dobber, Might you be willing to do some sort of an article that would rank the goalies based on everything that you have in your criteria EXCEPT the point trading and the playoff criteria? Frankly, these rankings do nothing for me and they really don't do a lot for people that play in a standard yahoo league where the playoffs occur the last couple of weeks in the season and points do not get traded. It would seem that the playoffs are a pretty significant portion of your ratings at this point as you have a guy like Ward ranked so low when I think that most people would be willing to give up a guy like Huet or Nemmi for Ward. But I could be very wrong in that assessment. Something like playoff potential and existing statics are a lot easier to factor into a deal (and therefore adjust a list) then they are to extract and reconstruct this list. And in including team playoff potential, you significantly over-value guys based solely on their team. For example, Nabby is an awesome goalie and should be top 10 for sure. But what if after this season, he jumps ship and signs with Toronto? Now I think that you would agree that Toronto is not quite an elite team and might not make the playoffs on an annual basis (although, they DO play in the East) but Nabby's value then plummets because his team is no longer a lock to make the playoffs. Now I understand that your ability to see the future is only so strong but Nabby is still the same player. His stats might dip a bit but in this setup, he would drop significantly in the rankings when in all reality, he is still going to be a VERY good keeper option. This list would seem to be more valuable for a one year league rather then a keeper. Just some food for thought Thank you |
dean little
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... I just recently acquired Huet in a trade, and i see he has been bumped into your top 10 list, but he seems like he has some real stinkers here and there, and niemi has looked pretty darn good this season. should huet owners worry about his keeper value past this season, and is there any fear of niemi stealing the #1 job for the playoffs? my keeper team has had a poor regular season, so im looking towards the playoffs to salvage this season. |
Dobber
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... It was the fact that I missed adjusting him in November and again in December, Tim. It's a correction. But love the sarcasm, thank you. All-Star game, that's priceless! |
Tim
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Interesting... Just curious as to what event(s) in the last 31 days deemed a 30 point increase in Salak’s value. It couldn’t have been the fact that he missed 19 games with an injury. It probably wasn’t the fact that Salak GAA has increased while his SV% decreased. I’m fairly certain Florida still retains his rights. Perhaps it was his play in the All-Star game. |
Dobber
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... Guys - if you strike "gold" as a prospect in Florida, the prize is 30 or 35 wins and a playoff round. If you strike "gold" as a prospect in Pittsburgh, the prize is 50 wins, an NHL record, and a Stanley Cup. So Thiessen with a 1% shot at making it big, or Salak with a very promising shot - say 65% - at making it big...makes things a lot closer than you think in terms of value. You also need to look at the team and the end result of "success". |
Tim
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It's all good... I'll start by saying the Wharfrat is a big fan of the Dobster. I've been tuning in for years. Just as you called MALKIN would go nuts, you are ahead of the curve with predicting most situations in this League. That is why I am a fan and will continue to be a fan. Now that being said, it's time to Cowboy-Up and say Salak should have moved up in the rankings. Yes Markstrom may be better, but that does not take away from Salak's genious. True tallent will find away to produce. And for the record, you didn't introduce me to Salak.  |
Go Big or....
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... "But let's be realistic - the best goalie not in the NHL is Markstrom. So even if Salak is the second best goalie not in the NHL, how quickly will we see dividends? Not this year. It's a Bryzgalov/Giguere/Hiller situation brewing and it won't resolve itself for several years." True, Salak will be competing against Markstrom but could you not make a very similar case for many of the prospects on this list that rank much higher than Salak? Why don't we use Thiessen as an example, he's behind one of the best young goalies in the NHL and will have to compete with Curry for a backup spot. I'm not claiming to have all the answers here I'm just trying to figure out if there's something i'm missing because being behind a great young goalie on the depth charts doesn't seem to have hurt the ranking of other goalies on your list (eg, Schneider). Unless there are some strong reports emerging that he'll be traded I don't see him paying dividends for years either. Merry Christmas! |
Dobber
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... Also - you know this better than anyone Lanky - please don't complain about two players within five rating points of each other. The difference is so insignificant that it can go either way and not worth a discussion |
Dobber
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... Salak - hey, just remember who introduced him to your world! Though I'm sure some of you got the name from other sources, others heard it on DobberHockey first But let's be realistic - the best goalie not in the NHL is Markstrom. So even if Salak is the second best goalie not in the NHL, how quickly will we see dividends? Not this year. It's a Bryzgalov/Giguere/Hiller situation brewing and it won't resolve itself for several years. Price vs. Mason - Lanky, you're preaching to the choir. But that's precisely why the list is not "reactionary" (to respond to another comment). Six weeks ago I couldn't trade Price for a bucket of pucks, and Mason was still the golden boy of fantasy hockey. I won't be swapping the two back and forth every month because they take turns getting hot. But you are right - I love Price far more than Mason and always have. But my rankings are built for gradual shifts and not knee-jerks. |
Go Big or.....
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Salak? After following this list for a few years I am left wondering if it's not a little too reactionary. Guys shoot up this list in a flash once given a role in the big show (eg Jimmy Howard) but sometimes great prospects toil away with little or no movement even though the astute fantasy GM should be all over them (eg Salak). I guess this is just a caution for any GM's in deep pools looking for goalie prospects or trying to gauge fair value in goalie trades. If someone offers you Bernier for Howard take it! If someone offers you Salak for Bishop/ Montoya/ Johnson/ Lalande/ Thiessen (I think that's enough)......take it! Last but not least, if someone offers you Osgood for Roloson, hell yeah, take it! i'm not saying the list isn't useful, I look forward to it every month Cheers |
Bomm Bastic
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Lighten the Hell Up Do NOT go "PC" on me. If you can't handle a little smack talk then go sit at the kiddie table and let the adults have some fun. That said....gotta question: I'm in a 12 team/24-man roster dynasty league. I own Nabakov, Quick, and Pavelec. Nabakov and Quick are #1 & #2, respectively. Pavelec is merely a long term keeper at this point. I was thinking of dropping Pavelec and picking up Greiss of waivers. Appreciate thoughts re who has the better long-term upside Greiss or Pavelec..... |
lanky522
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Price vs. Steve Mason It's a mystery to me how Mason is still ahead of Price. Mason will only continue to struggle, as fewer teams look as lost right now as the Jackets, whereas Price seems to be on the upswing after experiencing his "slump" last season. |
The Rat
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... No love for Salak? He's only moved a spot or two in the past 3 Months but has been amazing as a rookie in the AHL. Not sure what more he could have done to start the season.  |
Mike Long
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... Oh, and I noticed you didn't really bring up the 2nd part of my original post. The first paragraph was re: Varlamov, but the 2nd was about Thomas and his ridiculous ranking at 5. Looks like you conveniently ignored that. Regardless, I like your work. Just gotta keep you on your toes. |
Mike Long
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... Re: Varlamov I'll reserve judgment for this month, and wait until he actually plays some decent competition. 3 of his 4 wins came against the Islanders, Wild, and Leafs. That's not exactly top competition. If he does the same thing against top competition this month, I'll admit I was wrong. But, not before then. |
dean little
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... Dobber: Ive got Nabokov, S. Mason, Varlamov and Emery, that's four of your top 13 goalies, am i overloaded since we only use one goalie for stats? should I try and deal one of these goalies for some help? If so which one is the best trade asset to move, in terms of getting some decent value back but not hurting myself for this year/future? What kind of players should I target? |
Dobber
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... Keeper league - Osgood is probably done after this year...and it looks like this year he will struggle to get past 25 wins. No trade can save him. Howard is probably not the answer in the future, but he might be. This year he'll struggle to get to 20 wins. That's why both their values are low. Toskala is still young, is still a proven starter even though he has struggled with injuries, and can actually flourish if he is traded. No comments this month from Mike Long-ville? Varlamov finally got your tongue? hhaha |
Oilers rock 99
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Detroit??? seems kind of strange that the top ranked goalie for the best team in the last 15 years is only at # 44 do you expect a total collapse?? or just do't know who will lead the team in to the next 10 years one thing is for sure detroit's goalies should be at least ranked higher than toskla?? |
Mike Long
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... "You could be on and off this bandwagon all season long - but I'll stay on it. " -Dobber There is no on and off. I'm not on his bandwagon, period. As I said before, he'll be no more useful than Theodore was last season. |
jordan
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System needs change. I think the fact that Dobber uses "Playoff" value and "Keeper" value, significantly handcuffs the usefulness of this list. Get rid of the points for playoff teams and remove the 1 year mentality that list has, and all of a sudden it becomes a lot more useful. |
Mike Terrion
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... It might be better to go through the criteria Dobber clearly uses in ranking these guys. Rather than just calling it "ridiculous", what about stating "Why" you think that way. i.e. 1. Wins - Thomas and Varly should get more wins than Miller. 2. Thomas and Varly are both on surefire playoff teams. Miller is not. 3. They are all #1 on their depth charts. Anyone who thinks Theo is Washington's #1 is delusional. 4. doesn't apply to any of them. 5. doesn't apply to any of them, although Miller is the most recent of them to have a significant injury. 6. All talented, the difference between them is marginal although Justin Goldman would be the best person to analyze that. 7. Varly is the youngest. Thomas the oldest. Miller in the middle. 8. doesn't apply to any of them. Summary: They are ranked reasonably by Dobber according to the criteria he uses. It's ridiculous to call it ridiculous. |
Doctagon
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... Even at #23 I would take Biron or Roloson (all 40 years of him) on the off chance that they get traded to a contender before I would touch Toskala.....Otherwise, great list. (And I'm kid of joking on the first part, but not really) |
derek
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UR STILL A TURD I doubt if Fleury got hurt that they would sit on Brent Johnson which means Curry would come up...yes thats a slim chance but it could happen and I am saying the chances of that happening are better then the Flames who cant play a lick of D. The Canucks who like you said are offensively inept and Brodeur who is 100 yrs old (no chance the Devils win the cup). I wasnt saying these guys werent going to be the goalies if these guys make it. I am saying these teams will NOT make the finals...hence they have no chance. I can see Pitt with Curry still making it. PS. I am a Pens fan(which may cloud my judgement) but I am by no means a fanboy of Dobber. |
Dobber
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... Mike Long - atoadaso!!! Amazing what a 2-0 record and 1.14 GAA for the week will do. You could be on and off this bandwagon all season long - but I'll stay on it. |
sentium
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... Valiquette doesn't really feel relevant for this list, barring season-ending injury to Lundqvist. |
Mike Long
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... Re: Varlamov I am not the kind of person to say atoadaso Dobber, but you know what? Atoadaso, i $%&*@ atoadaso! |
Doog
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... Dobber, Our league weighs save percentage much higher than W/L. Would you be willing to do an article at some point ranking keeper goalies based on that criterion? |
Keith
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omission?? Dobbs: with the way teams are re-building so quickly since the lockout (BOS, PIT, WAS, PHI, CHI) I was looking at a goalie to take in a keeper draft and was looking at the NYI team it seems that with the good job snow and Co are doing. how long will it be till they start to climb the ladder? so I was thinking that after Bandaid boy Rickey D there is only rolo/biron ,both who are on their way out (one age the other sucks) so I looked at MIKKO KOSKINEN and thought this guy should be on your list there is a really good chance that RD will have to retire early due to injury and that would leave MIKKO KOSKINEN as the only option in a couple years when their young guns start to devolep, and if they get Taylor Hall this year they would have to be looked at seriously in the near future. what do you think?? |
Dustin Carr
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Varlomov I agree with Mike Long, how is Varlomov above Ryan Miller. This must be a mistake. |
bluejays
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... I tend to agree with Kickerz points. It is a very difficult list to write and by no means would I wanna attempt it, but Kickerz does raise some good points..... I strongly suggested a prospect list for d-men awhile back, is there any way a goalie propsect list (Top 10) is in the cards Dobber? That would be sweet! |
Mike Long
said:
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... I wish I could get Kipper, Miller, or Backstrom for Varlamov in one of my leagues. Seriously, Dobber, you would trade those guys for Varlamov straight up? Wow. Did you not watch his pathetic callapse against the Pens? What's he ranked so high for? Pure potential, or the 3 or 4 good games he played at the end of the Rangers series? The guy isn't ready yet, and you will find out soon enough. He'll have Jose Theodore-like numbers this year - at the very best. And what exactly did Tim Thomas do to jump 7 spots from July to August? Number 5 in a keeper list? Wow. If age doesn't matter, why is Broduer all the way down at 12? Thomas will be sharing his job with Rask as early as this year, and definitely next year. If someone traded Price, Ward, or Mason in my league for Thomas, I'd laugh at them. There is absolutely no consistency in this list. |
dean little
said:
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... "DRL33...ur a turd I would take the bet that Curry has a better chance than Brodeur, Kipper, Luongo, Giguere, Theodore...and that brings the list down a little. The devils have little or no chance to win the cup... Luongo is on the Canucks...no chance Giggy is gonna be buried behind Hiller by the end of the year...no chance Theodore will be behind Varly and or Neuvirth by the end of the year... Kipper is losing it slowly... Now the list is 10...what Dobber said..." ok fanboy, lets play out your logic, in order for curry to win the cup, fleury needs to be injured and the pens decide to A. not trade for a proven goalie such as a giguere who may be available and B. decide to go with a unproven AHL goalie over Johnson who has played in the playoffs before. K, good luck with that happening. now for your list: The devils have little or no chance to win the cup...: last i checked brodeur was one of a handful of a goales who has the abiltiy to carry a team to a cup, and entering last years playoffs the devils were pegged a solid cup contender. Luongo is on the Canucks...no chance : luongo puts up great numbers in the playoffs, maybe one day the offense helps pick up the slack. He's also a soon to be UFA, whose to say by some crazy fluke he is dealt to a contender? betting against luongo is not very bright. Giggy is gonna be buried behind Hiller by the end of the year...no chance : you use the buried line, but fail to realize curry is behind two goalies??? Giggy has won a cup, and may get dealt to a contender, surely a smart GM would gamble on a proven cup winner before going with a 25 yr old ahler in the playoffs. ducks have a strong team, writing off giggy for hillier is also premature. Theodore will be behind Varly and or Neuvirth by the end of the year... : again how do you use this an excuse and not acknowledge curry being a #3? lol Kipper is losing it slowly... : and is still the unquestioned man in the nets for a strong team. now who is the turd, turd lol |
Dobber
said:
|
... drl: "this has to be one of the silliest things ive read on this otherwise great site, saying the Pens "will" win, not "may" but "will" is quite the bold statement." - I said will "win" and while that probably does imply win a Cup, I didn't mean for that. I meant they will win lots of playoff games. They will win a Cup probably Cups over the next decade, but meanwhile they will go deep very often. That's gold in my keeper leagues. "No friggin team is winning a Stanley Cup now or even a few years in the future with John Freakin Curry as their #1, you can put that in the bank as far as im concerned. The Pens arent the Oilers of the 80's, they dont even sniff the finals last year without the superb play of Fleury, a 25 year old career AHLer aint winning no stanley cup next year, get serious." - Fleury was terrible in the postseason until the final two games. Curry is a very underrated goalie who has overachieved at every level. You haven't read my stuff if you don't know this, but every team he's pretty much signed as depth, or as a walk on and by the end of the year he's the starter. Story of his life. Anyway, what's "crazy" is nit-picking how I have a guy on a TOP NHL team 36th. The No.3 goalie behind two Band-Aid Boys. 36th. And that gets nit-picked. Amusing. "This next quote is even crazier..."Big if, but of all the goalies who could win a Cup this year, Curry is one of about 10."" -This was an exaggeration. The exact number may be 22, or 19, or whatever. Didn't know people would be reading it with a pad and paper in hand, waiting to look it up and fully research it, ready to criticize. "Getting defensive because someone questioned your rankings, doesnt mean you should fire off insults and make outlandish predictions, it just makes you look ridiculous." - It's a Fantasy Hockey site, not the Globe and Mail. On a professional site such as the Globe, the writer will not respond to comments. In fantasy hockey, however, trash talk is encouraged and embraced. I want that culture here on my site. So I participate in the comments and I trash talk. I think of this as me having a beer with you and arguing one of your points. I can't get all "PC" and "professional" here, or the entire feel of the site would change. So if Kickerz was offended, I apologize. But I really just joked around with that "check boxes" stuff. - Think about this - if one out of every five readers on this site criticized me once per year, I would be getting insulted and criticized every half hour to an hour. That really adds up... and it wouldn't be very fair if I couldn't strike back now, would it? |
sentium
said:
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... So the ridiculously miniscule chance that Curry wins a cup as starter weighs more heavily than all the regular season stats that other, ACTUAL NHL GOALIES, will get? This is fantasy hockey, people. Seriously, Curry is third on the Pittsburgh depth chart and isn't even very elite in the AHL. Pittsburgh fans absolutely DID NOT want Curry as backup this year because they know that he's not all that good. |
buck0198
said:
 |
DRL33...ur a turd I would take the bet that Curry has a better chance than Brodeur, Kipper, Luongo, Giguere, Theodore...and that brings the list down a little. The devils have little or no chance to win the cup... Luongo is on the Canucks...no chance Giggy is gonna be buried behind Hiller by the end of the year...no chance Theodore will be behind Varly and or Neuvirth by the end of the year... Kipper is losing it slowly... Now the list is 10...what Dobber said... |
drl33
said:
|
... There is no "why the hate"... read this and tell me who was being rude... "Kickerz - hilarious comment. You know better than that. Rask is a top 20 goalie in keepers this year, because within three seasons he'll be getting 35 wins and is one of only a handful of goalies with the potential to one day get even 45 wins. KEEPER league buddy. I'd love for you to be in my league, one more guy to easily beat. Crawford and Niemi - HUGE value because Chicago is on the upswing of a good decade of 45-plus win seasons. One of them will benefit from that - especially with Huet being a Band-Aid boy. Backups who are young and on great teams (who will be in the playoffs for years to come - and my lists count playoffs) are valuable. If you can't see that, go check off boxes in newspaper pools, because this isn't for you." This site is amazing, but smack talking people who support your site is rather disappointing. |
germant
said:
 |
... Why the hate? Dobber does what Dobber does and that's provide us with his insight. He puts his opinions out there and not everybody's going to agree with them but he puts them out there nonetheless. Unlike paperback rankings, there's a site here for people to post their (differing or supporting) opinions but try to be respectful of the fact that he's putting himself out on a limb with his predictions. If you don't agree, then post as you did but don't get indignant or rude. Show some respect. |
drl33
said:
|
... "Curry is an injury away from winning a Stanley Cup. The Pens will win again this year and if Fleury is hurt, they could ride Curry (not Johnson). Big if, but of all the goalies who could win a Cup this year, Curry is one of about 10. Markstrom won't get any wins this year and maybe two dozen next year. His (elite) value is for three years from now. I do admit, my formula is flawed in differentiating these two though. But it's hard to use one formula on all situations." Im sorry, but this has to be one of the silliest things ive read on this otherwise great site, saying the Pens "will" win, not "may" but "will" is quite the bold statement. No team in over a decade has repeated, DRW got better than their previous cup team and still were unable to repeat due to injuries. No friggin team is winning a Stanley Cup now or even a few years in the future with John Freakin Curry as their #1, you can put that in the bank as far as im concerned. The Pens arent the Oilers of the 80's, they dont even sniff the finals last year without the superb play of Fleury, a 25 year old career AHLer aint winning no stanley cup next year, get serious. This next quote is even crazier..."Big if, but of all the goalies who could win a Cup this year, Curry is one of about 10." Id bet as much as i could possibly bet that one of these goalies will win the cup this season before id bet on John Curry. Brodeur, Emery, Thomas, Fleury, Lundqvist, Varlamov, Theodore, Ward, Osgood, Huet, Kipper, Luongo, Nabokov, Hillier, Giguere. Thats 15 guys with a better shot, nevermind one of ten. Curry, a guy that has 2 career NHL wins, behind one of the best goalies in the league, is not in the top 10 of possible cup winning goalies. Not only that, but he wont even be in the NHL to begin the season. Getting defensive because someone questioned your rankings, doesnt mean you should fire off insults and make outlandish predictions, it just makes you look ridiculous. |
eyemissgilmour
said:
 |
... "Curry is an injury away from winning a Stanley Cup." That's wishful thinking at best, and ridiculous at worst. If Fleury gets hurt, The Pens will acquire another goalie faster than Kyle Wellwood finishes his hourly BigMac. So you would trade me Markstrom for Curry in a keeper league, yes? |
Kickerz
said:
|
... Dobber, The way you have this list reporting, it is ONLY applicable to deep Keeper leagues with Farm systems. Emphasis there on the farm system. If a league has no farm system (and most I would venture DO NOT), this list is misreporting the value of so many goalies in the majority of keeper leagues. This and of itself is not bad, but you may wish to point that out a little more clearly in your explanation of the list. |
smack1919
said:
 |
... mikelong11 - Look at Leclaire's injury history. You'll be exhausted after. He's right where he should be, imo. |
mikelong11
said:
|
... Pacal Leclaire is WAY too low. I would put thousands and thousands of dollars on the fact he will be a top 20 goalie this year. He's behind Curry and Neuvirth? Wow. |
Dobber
said:
|
... Emery always gives one great year to his team before a meltdown. I think I wrote that in my guide. He'll be fine this year. |
Dobber
said:
|
... Curry is an injury away from winning a Stanley Cup. The Pens will win again this year and if Fleury is hurt, they could ride Curry (not Johnson). Big if, but of all the goalies who could win a Cup this year, Curry is one of about 10. Markstrom won't get any wins this year and maybe two dozen next year. His (elite) value is for three years from now. I do admit, my formula is flawed in differentiating these two though. But it's hard to use one formula on all situations. Kickerz - Keeper league or not, you can't ignore the 40 wins that Thomas will give you this year. He just signed a new contract, so I'm thinking he'll have 85 wins over the next two seasons. It's a delicate balance - here and now vs. long-term. But I try. Expert League - I think I finished like 8th and 9th the last two years, so beating me is child's play. The hardcore poolies on this site just toy with me like a cat with a mouse. My forte is keeper leagues, I'm in three of them, and by the time I get to my one-year league I have less time to devote and I have a hard time changing my strategy to accommodate one year. |
Kickerz
said:
|
... Dobber, You may wish to re-read my post. The issue is not that it is a keeper league, it is that your list is trying to do opposite things. If what make Rask's value so high is his youth and situation, that should have a negative impact on Thomas, as he is on his last legs. I also can also acknowledge that a backup that is established to carry the torch on a great young team has a lot of value, I can't accept giving value to two different players based on the reasoning that one of them and only one will get in. Especially not over proven production. There is a reason why (for most drafts) guys like Doan go higher in a drafts than guys like Giroux . As for wishing I was in your league, so you could beat me easily...Well, if a guy like me that has been in hockey pools for only 3 years manages to beat the owner of the premier fantasy hockey forum, -and a guy who earns his living giving advice on these pools- I would be pretty happy. Is it impossible? Let me in and find out  . I hear you run that 3 tier league right? |
eyemissgilmour
said:
|
... Solid list. But Curry at 36? Ahead of Markstrom?! No offense, but that makes no sense. A) Markstrom is the better goalie. B) Markstrom has lesser competition to overcome to become a #1. C) Markstrom has the better pedigree. The only plus I could give Curry is playing for the Pens, but he'll hardly ever actually PLAY for them. Let's put it another way, You would trade me Markstrom straight up for Curry? |
Oilers rock 99
said:
|
Roberto Luongo I think his actual talent is getting in the way of your ranking here as good as he is (skill wise) I just don't see the canucks challenging for anything so unless he decides to opt for UFA next year he flat out will not get the wins nessary to beat the other top 6 guys especially if they ever decide to give schnider a few games. and the other one is Brian Boucher he is just a Ray emery melt down away from being #1 on a cup contender. seem to me that emery lost his job on OTT because he was a train wreck and then couldn't find work on any other 29 teams (inc NYI, COL, TB, ATL,) all teams that could use a good goalie yet everyone passed. then on anger managment rehab, (KHL) ,he punches his trainer in the face for putting a hat on him?? I don't think its un reasonable to think he may still prone to Mental meltdowns?? would you put $$ on the fact he is the #1 all year in Philly?? if not considering the cap space the flyers cant just go and get another guy so Brian Boucher looks to me as a pretty good value wager and his record over the last few years has been great I would not go as far as comparing Brian Boucher to tim Thomas but the situation may play out that way. older solid goalie gets a chance and runs with it.... I have already picked him up on waivers in my Leauge and got an imidate offer from the emery owner(seems he is not so confidant in emery either).. |
Dobber
said:
|
... Kickerz - hilarious comment. You know better than that. Rask is a top 20 goalie in keepers this year, because within three seasons he'll be getting 35 wins and is one of only a handful of goalies with the potential to one day get even 45 wins. KEEPER league buddy. I'd love for you to be in my league, one more guy to easily beat. Crawford and Niemi - HUGE value because Chicago is on the upswing of a good decade of 45-plus win seasons. One of them will benefit from that - especially with Huet being a Band-Aid boy. Backups who are young and on great teams (who will be in the playoffs for years to come - and my lists count playoffs) are valuable. If you can't see that, go check off boxes in newspaper pools, because this isn't for you. |
sentium
said:
|
... Kickerz: Then you don't want to look over the top 300 for players that are a few years away from actually hitting NHL ice Let's just say that you might feel inclined to write another comment I think lists like these are really tricky. Do you go by production? Do you go by possible trade value/hype? Do you go by how sure of a thing a goalie is? You can't have it all and this is Dobber's variant. Take it for what it is, meaning that it's not the end-all, be-all goalie list. Use it as one source of many when making your decisions. |
Kickerz
said:
|
Worst Top # list I like the other lists... But the goalies top 100 list is beyond useless. So many issues. Goalies are a particular type. They are worth absolutely nothing until they are actually up there. They are too finicky... Case in point...Are the 2 backups in Chi worth anything??? Not really... Tuka Raask and Thomas in the top 15. That makes no sense. It is called hedging bets. I would way rather see a list that denoted the top goalies actual value in a keeper league...Meaning if they are not producing, they do not belong here and should be on the top 215 prospect page. It is like having a guy in the top 300 list who may not even make the NHL... What kind of advice is that... |
oilerblue
said:
 |
... Smith at 16, assume that means he's recovered from his concussion for next season? |
Santo Manna
said:
|
... Very interesting, I know the August rankings are the ones that Dobber advises us are most accurate, but it's nonetheless interesting that Dobber is clearly on the Hiller wagon as against Giguere (which was not the case in the June rankings). That's a situation I would almost certainly stay away from, just because given Giguere's family issues last year and his pedigree, i could easily see him come back and kick butt next year, rendering Hiller a backup again. To me, there's too much risk there, but I would easily pick up Hiller as a high risk/reward option if I had sufficient backup (e.g., pick him up as a 3rd goalie on the off chance he in fact does steal/solidify the starter role). Otherwise, these are pretty solid rankings, although I would have thought Mike Smith's concussion problems would have knocked him down quite a bit. Great job as always Dobber, look forward to the Guide! |
Mabus
said:
 |
... Based on the criteria at the top, I think, Mason and Price are both too high and Huet is way too low. I think there would be laughter during a draft that counted wins including playoffs if Dipietro or Lehtonen went before Huet. Price (and the Canadians team as a whole) has too many question marks to take him before Ward, Miller or Kipper. And you would rather have Toskala over Emery? Good list, but those would be my tweaks. |
loco man
said:
 |
... I continue to be surprised Huet's rankings. He was an MVP candidate in Montreal prior to getting hurt, was awesome in Washington and landed in a sticky situation in Chicago. Remember, the Hawks were desperate to move Khabby, but simply couldn't. Now, being given the reigns on a powerhous Chi-town, I expect Huet to put up huge numbers this season. Is he really more of an injury risk than Fleury or Nabokov, etc.? He has something to prove this year and has a track record that shows he can back it up. Can you tell I am a Huet owner?? |
Dobber
said:
|
... Oh - Backstrom is low because...to put it bluntly, Minnesota sucks. If you get my tweets on Twitter, you would have read my opinion that although Backstrom will start as many or more games this season...the Wild won't win as many. They also don't have defensive Lemaire as coach. |
Dobber
said:
|
... Claudio - the rating difference is six points, or about 4%. Not worth an argument, since the player ratings are too close. 48% of keeper poolies would prefer Luongo, 52% would prefer Lundqvist. And all 48% of Luongo backers would argue with me I'm sure. But after his injury last year, I need to wait a few months before I would take him over Lundqvist. Right now, give me Lundqvist. |
Claudio
said:
 |
... Still don't understand why Backstrom is so low and why Lundqvist is ahead of Luongo. |
Dobber
said:
|
... Just look down the May column at the goalies that were below 4 and are now above Kipper. They moved up...he didn't really move down. It's a tight race in that range, so it doesn't take much to move up or down. |
Ryan
said:
 |
... I know we are probably splitting hairs, but why did Kipper drop from 4 to 11 since May? |
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